Interview With Declan Dunn: A Pioneer of Internet Marketing

This time I have been very lucky to get in touch with Declan Dunn, one of the pioneers of Internet Marketing. Some of his answers are incredible and deeply insightful.

So, I would suggest – close all other tabs and dig this for a while. It will be worth your time!

1. Please tell us something about yourself. 

I am an entrepreneur for over 27 years, helping businesses, large and small, build their customer base, grow revenue, and position themselves for either a long term business, IPO, or acquisition. I’ve been an integral part of 10 companies going IPO or getting acquired, while helping many more than that simply build a great business.

Everything I do begins and ends with the customer – helping them identify and solve their problems while building a business that they love to be a part of, because becoming a customer means being an essential part of your business.

Now I build companies for growth, both as a coach and a direct participant in several companies, including FMGNetwork.com and Cydec.  At the core of what I do is a move from marketing and business development as selling, to one of serving people.

My greatest success is an educational site I began in 1995 which has educated over 50 million students worldwide, and makes no money yet shares tons of love.

It’s what you leave behind, not what you do or who you are, that matters. And every action gives us a chance to improve other people’s lives.

2. You are one of the pioneers of Internet marketing, starting as early as 1994. How did you foresee the immense potential of this field then?

Picture a world where everyone is disconnected, where phones have answering machines and building a business is insanely expensive. That’s what it was like in 1994 when I was developing my educational project – part of a Master’s Program that I created to build a CD-ROM. Then, in 1994, I saw Marc Andreesen of Netscape share the world’s first browser.

Seeing that, I knew that I could reach thousands if not millions of people first, and began putting everything I knew into it. Those early days we all knew the power of the Internet, we just didn’t know how and how quickly it would grow. How I saw this potential was simple; it was much, much easier than anything before it, and everyone was going to have some form of computer.

Also the Internet was one of the first things I really intuitively understood; the real world of retail and physical business I struggled with, yet the digital world was just in my blood. I’ve been able to keep 2-3 years ahead of the market simply because I watch what people do, not what I think.

When you watch human behavior and not just your opinion, you can witness amazing things. Get yourself out of the way and miracles can happen. Those early days of the Internet you had tons of visionaries, dreamers, and brilliant people coming together to make the world a better place.

The Internet (which seems so old fashioned to say, I call it the digital world now) is a way to connect people, not separate them, and I took this to heart by building my educational site on partnerships, moving from CD-ROM to a web site. Once I reached my first million visitors in 1997, I applied these same community building principles to a growing marketing field called affiliate programs, and applied the same methodology to big companies like American Express that I did to my little educational site, and I continue that to this day.

3. You have come to be known as the expert’s expert. How did you build this reputation?

Results, plain and simple. Most experts have a huge pitch with a small delivery. I’m always one to under promise and over deliver, because I love helping people. In fact, one of the ways I built my reputation is by creating my own manifesto, with help of the E-Myth, which guides me to this day:

“Help others help themselves, always. Learn, teach, and be amazed.”

My reputation grew because I shared it in multiple markets; affiliate marketing, Internet marketing, and online education. I got to help companies like PBS and ABC, and also helped small businesses grow into larger ones. And along the way, a bunch of new people were coming online. That’s where I got to know many of the leading experts today; teaching them and learning from them as they got into this space.

The best way I built my reputation is by delivering results and helping people with a down to earth, me to you approach delivered in plain, simple English and not hype. I ran one of the largest marketing agencies for 5 years, with 25 employees as well, of which 12 still run their own businesses (I left in 2004). And they are still friends, many of whom I still work with on projects.

You build your reputation by caring about people. Both-the businesses and experts I help, and their customers, I care for. And if I make mistakes, I love it and admit it, and don’t do the blame game or dance. Mostly I help people understand that anyone, seriously anyone, can come up with the next biggest idea, and you don’t need a guru to find it.

You are the guru, you are the answer, and while you can learn from others, I became the expert’s expert because I’m a Guide on the Side – NOT a sage on the stage claiming to be perfect. The only way to succeed is to find your own unique way, which is something I continue to do with the people I help.

4. You say “If you don’t love your audience, someone else will”. What do you think is the best way to prove to your audience that you love them?

Listen to them and deliver what you promise. How do you prove love in a relationship? You care, listen, adapt and grow, make mistakes and own those mistakes instead of making excuses. You begin by focusing on  “how can I serve my audience and help them solve their problems, not how much can I sell or how much money I can make”. That’s simply a result of loving your audience.

The best way to prove your love to your audience is – helping them first identify their problem. Most people don’t really know they have a problem, or they would be solving it. And focusing them on actionable solutions. Finally, always approach your business with a smile and love.

Love yourself, you can love your customer; you prove your love by being there, being loyal, and being accountable. And always listening to learn from the audience, because they are the ones with the answers, not you!

5. You have worked with the best of small businesses and large corporations. How similar do you think they are? And what sets them apart?

All businesses have one thing in common; they must be profitable. What sets them apart is the size of the business, the budget, and the number of people helping them. For example, small businesses usually have limited resources, fewer people, and are trying to become big. They’ll be more flexible, take chances, and by their lack of resources they are usually much more inventive and here’s a buzzword – innovative – because they have to be or they won’t succeed.

Bigger companies move slower and while they like to be inventive, they are limited by the impact that could have on their growth. For example, when I put American Express’ affiliate program online for the first time, I learned that one complaint in an email could reach the New York Times and have a negative impact much, much greater than the value of the affiliate program. That happens with brands and big businesses.

Big businesses teach me how to plan, execute, and look at growth over longer periods, while small businesses which I love and always help have that passion, energy, and belief that is usually sucked out when a company gets big.

Today I try to teach big businesses to be more lean and agile, entrepreneurial within a corporate context, and I also help small businesses with the discipline and focus that large companies bring. By blending the two, you find that what they have in common is the ultimate goal; get their customers to love them and become repeat customers, while making the business fun for those employees or entrepreneurs building the business.

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6. What would be your one big advice to the new age Internet marketers?

Serve your customers, don’t sell to them. The old days of selling, of advertising being a place to interrupt people to get their attention, is slowly dying out. It will never go away, but if you go into business thinking only of how much money your business will make and how your dreams will come true, you forget the customer.

Make the customer the center of your universe and serve them; guide them, help them identify their problem, and THEN drive them to a purchase. Trying to sell by a tricky headline is so 20th century. In a mobile, digitally connected world, you have to focus on how to serve your customers and customers to be; do that and they will come back. Fail to do it and they will complain loudly, creating a short term business.

Forget selling the old way, it simply doesn’t work except for a few markets that play on people’s weaknesses. And that’s not loving your customer to me, that’s playing to their pain and causing more fear and worry, instead of guiding them to their pleasure, solving their problems and helping them grow.

7. Apart from your work, what keeps you interested and occupied?

Teaching and online education, which I’ve done since the beginning. There’s nothing like helping people learn.  Today I help students studying history, as well as new entrepreneurs who are starting out, raising funding, and I do this often not for the money, but for the joy of teaching.

I’m also into gardening, meditation, reading all the time, and getting out in nature, way out there. Listening to all the amazing sounds and energy of nature is enough to keep me charged for days. So many people are in a rush that they miss the little things, the way you can help people with a smile and a helping hand.

What keeps me occupied is helping people, plain and simple. It’s what life is all about.

8. What role does spirituality play in your life? And how does it help you grow your business?

The word spirituality just has so many meanings, so let me share what it means to me. Being spiritual means recognizing that it’s not all about you and that every action you take affects other people. Doing your best, caring about what you do and the effects your actions have, are the core of spirituality to me.

We are all part of one planet, one human race connected with so many other species, each of which delivers its own value. So I try to remember that it’s not about me or what I do, it’s about all of us.

That helps me grow my business and other businesses, because I want them to spread love. That’s what it’s all about. If they love your business they will love working with you and come back again and again. But I don’t go out and scream this to people, telling them to do things my way.

Being spiritual means helping people do it their own way, being grateful, and passing it onto their customers, investors, employees … everyone. I get more referrals to my business because people get that I’m not hustling or selling anything. I sincerely want them to be the best they can be, to their business, their family, and humanity. Do that and your business will grow, guaranteed.

9. People often say they don’t get time to work towards their spirituality. Do you agree? Do we need to find a balance between spirituality and other things in life or do we need to have a spiritual approach to everything we do?

No! That’s crazy, just the use of the word “work”. Spirituality is not something you do as a job or a hobby, it involves every person you interact with, it’s embedded into everything you do. So saying you don’t have time to work on it is an excuse, a separation – heck raising a child is one of the most spiritual things you can do, and no one says I need to find the time, you just do it. (Disclosure, I don’t have children I just teach them, and they are truly amazing.)

In my opinion, finding balance comes with living a spiritual life which has no boundaries between business and personal.

This question reminds me of my lessons in meditation at a Buddhist abbey. I’d meditate but didn’t get that it wasn’t just the act of meditation, you come to realize life is all a meditation, a chance to be spiritual and not live separate, because everything you need…you already have, inside of you.  Now I meditate all day, not just in front of a wall, but in my life, taking time to listen and learn from others, and be quiet instead of letting my own thoughts rule.

At that abbey, I had a chance to get some spiritual counseling, which I thought was cool. So I had 2 questions I asked the monk.

I asked the first question and the monk said, “Sit with it.”

I asked the second question and the monk said, “Sit with it.”

I asked her, “Is that your only answer, sit with it?”

She smiled and said, is there any other answer? I don’t have your solutions, you do. And once you give yourself time to sit with it, you’ll find that all the time you thought was lacking was spent looking for someone else to give you an answer.

I solved both my problems quickly by simply sitting with them, and taking action. Everything else is commentary.

10. What has been your biggest lesson in your journey of seeking God?

First I’m not so comfortable with capital G God; that’s just for myself. I don’t feel I’ve ever been on a journey seeking god, because to me, god is within you and part of everything, every plant and animal and person and planet.

We are all One, and that to me is god. My biggest lesson is to understand I’m never separate, there is no me and you, there’s only us. So if I hurt you or do something only for my own good, that won’t work. What I’m continuing to learn is how to love myself and everyone as completely as I can, because without loving the self, you can’t love the One. This is still something I’m learning. But in the end it’s all about love, not me or my life or success or any of the other illusions. Every day is another chance to share a little love. That’s what I’m learning.

11. What are your plans for the rest of 2014 and onwards?

I’m transitioning from doing project development and consulting with businesses – something I went back into 6 years ago because I saw that everything I had learned was changing – to going back to my roots, small businesses and mid size businesses.

For the first time in 6 years, I’m opening up to coaching people, guiding them, and building their businesses while not having to pay my consulting fees. I’m back to helping people of all levels.

I’m also psyched about FMGNetwork.com; most of my friends don’t get this, because since 2004 I’ve been building a network driven by women, led by the love of my life, Jody Colvard. She and I see this network as a way to spread powerful messages, share the love, and we continue to grow this business. We just got our contributors into over 400 salons, sharing their content.

I’m also going back to my educational roots and doing a major overhaul on my educational project began in 1994, because I love to teach and help people learn.

I don’t like to make long term plans. I find them limiting. Keep watching what’s in front of you, in the now, and adapt. Stop trying to predict the future. Invent it. That’s an old adage from business and one I believe in. Plans are done separately, now is always happening and while I do have plans to guide me, I pivot and adapt my plans, and goals, based on experience.

But put to the question, my plan is to smile more, love more, and give back more. Peace.

See also: My interview of Dr. Mani and Akash Gautam.